Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Ornodeal)

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:22:42 GMT

Russia is an imperialistic aggressor, it has been for centuries and always will be. One could draw parallels here with the German annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938, where the appeasers let the aggressor get away with something deemed unimportant to the outside world. It will only encourage Russia to see what they could get away with next. It only takes a possible disruption in Caucasus oil supplies for the world to start taking this more seriously.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Eddie_the_Hated)

Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:02:51 GMT

It won't be WW3.

That concept at it's core has been long exhausted. We learned our lessons in the alliance system in the first World War, and there's no agreed-upon imperialistic aggressor, as there was in World War II.

Not to mention, in today's day and age, land grabs for land's sake are relatively unimportant. Countries with key resources are on the top of any expanding nation's list, and Georgia....

Unless you're counting the oil pipeline that runs through an itty-bitty bit of their territory, they got nothin'.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (mastachefbkw)

Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:32:55 GMT

The UN will just treat this like they do every African country. They'll just ignore it as long as possible.

The start of WW3 anyone?

Sounds like a date.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Ornodeal)

Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:05:54 GMT

Russia (and the USSR as it was) has always been imperialistically aggressive, and will always try and gain as much territory as possible especially those they considered to be theirs anyway. Georgia incidentally has always been a key player in Russian politics (Stalin and Yeltsin I think were both Georgians). It will be interesting to see how the UN responds to this, but I'm sure they'll just wash their hands of this.

The start of WW3 anyone?

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (mastachefbkw)

Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:53:27 GMT

Since when does Bush have the right to criticise someone else's military use?

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Eddie_the_Hated)

Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:44:26 GMT

Because Russia began bombing Tblisi, located nowhere near South Ossetia or Abakhazia. Because they air-struck a civilian airport. Because they've now invaded undisputed Georgian territory. Take your pick.

I don't care how you go about your business securing borders, or ethnic groups, whatever. But you don't bomb civvies, and as of right now, there have been reports of targeted civilians on both sides of the conflict. That instantly makes them both wrong.

That, and because of the naval battle going on at the moment. Russia just sunk a few of their warships, and have no doubt, they're pissed about that.

President Bush today sharply criticised Moscow's harsh militarycrackdown in the former Soviet republic of Georgia, saying the violenceis unacceptable and Russia's response is disproportionate.TheUnited States is waging an all-out campaign to press Russia to halt itsretaliation against Georgia for trying to take control of the breakawayprovince of South Ossetia.
Bush, in an interview with NBC, said,"I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response ofRussia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of SouthOssetia."
Earlier, Vice President Dick Cheney said that "Russianaggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would haveserious consequences for its relations with the United States."

The US should be condemning both parties, but they laid down a condemnation of the conflict itself earlier this week.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Nitro)

Mon, 11 Aug 2008 07:19:55 GMT

Why is the US transporting Georgian troops from Iraq, straight into the conflict zone?

Why, after retreating back to positions held prior to Aug 6th and putting a proposal forward for a ceasefire has Georgia resumed shelling Russian positions in South Ossetia... and why hasn't the US asked them to stop?

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Eddie_the_Hated)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:17:40 GMT

There's a difference between being the bad guy and the instigator. More often than not, response to aggression is not properly measured, and the reactionary party has as much fault as the instigating party.

I meant the revolutionary war, fuck off.

Don't be like that baby.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (emofag)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:59:20 GMT

Eddie_the_Hated

Yes it is

US Civil War, Bad Guy = UK
WW2, Bad Guy = Germany and its allies

It's always blatantly obvious which side is evil.

The US fought itself in the Civil War dumbass. That's why it's called the Civil War.

Look at the Russo-Afghani war. We sent four million dollars to help the Mujahadeen fight off soviet control of the gulf, and in turn helped to create Al Qaeda. Who was right there?

The bad guy in that case is Russia, if they didn't opress people nothing would have happened.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (emofag)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:56:53 GMT

I meant the revolutionary war, fuck off.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Eddie_the_Hated)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:20:10 GMT

Yes it is

US Civil War, Bad Guy = UK
WW2, Bad Guy = Germany and its allies

It's always blatantly obvious which side is evil.

The US fought itself in the Civil War dumbass. That's why it's called the Civil War.

Look at the Russo-Afghani war. We sent four million dollars to help the Mujahadeen fight off soviet control of the gulf, and in turn helped to create Al Qaeda. Who was right there?

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Agent Ghost)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:26 GMT

The concept good or wrong is mearly a human perception, a subjective one at that. You can't measure evil because as an independant force it doesn't exist.

Every decision made is based on a common system (i.e. evironment). If you understand the system you can predict a persons actions. So where does right or wrong fit in? There is no right or wrong, there is only cause and effect. People who were informed about Georgia and Russia tensions predicted this years ago. No one person chose this outcome. Even the leaders of these countries were put in place for reasons.

The concept of good and evil is often used to justify war, notice how we're always the good guys. Do you think they see themselves as the bad guys? The broken concept of right or wrong is one of the glaring reasons religion fails.

Morality exists as a guide to help predict the desirerable outcomes. We make so called right decisions in the hopes we'll see the best effects. The so called wrong decision is supposed promotes the negative outcome. The reason there are no good/bad actions is because sometimes a good action can have bad consequences and vice versa. In war the short term outcomes are always bad, the long term outcomes are impossible to predict. Yet everyone thinks they're the good guys. I only see two assholes fighting. It seems like life never stops fighting, the fights just get passed down to someone else.

In reality everyone is just acting based on primitive survival instincts. The real good guys are the ones on the street preaching for peace. There are ways that we can all survive and prosper, that's the best outcome.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Johnny Jiron)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:01:33 GMT

Depending on what side you're on...

But I guess going by a majority thought then yeah there could be a good and a bad.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (emofag)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:29:53 GMT

Yes it is

US Revolution War, Bad Guy = UK
WW2, Bad Guy = Germany and its allies

It's always blatantly obvious which side is evil.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Agent Ghost)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:23:08 GMT

It's not a good versus bad conflict.

It never is.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Eddie_the_Hated)

Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:25:53 GMT

Um, it seems to be Russia are the good guys here. Seriously.

It's not a good versus bad conflict.

Russia has had a vested interest in regaining it's old Soviet satellite territories for years, and there's no doubt any alliance they can keep with the South Ossetians will be kept, at all cost (and others like it, ones with less strategic importance).

Georgia, like many newly formed sovereigns has been stuck with civil wars and economic crisis after crisis after the Soviet Union turned them loose, and is looking to establish itself as a major player in world affairs. They've been trying to enter NATO for years, but have been rejected multiple times (In part owing to their faltering economy, but moreso I think to do with their stilted relationships with Russia), and by attempting to consolidate their splinter territories they were attempting to put on a show for the west, and Russia in one fell swoop.

Problem being, they've had years of problems in places like South Ossetia, and Abkahazia, and the majority of the population is ethnic Russian with Russian citizenship.

I can't speak on the ethnic cleansing rumors. There's been no facts, no photos, and no major news pieces from sources I trust to have no vested interest in delivering to me (IE, Ones that aren't Russian, or Ossetian). Propaganda wars have been a major part of new Russia's conflicts in the suckistans since the dissolving of the USSR, and this is no different. All we know for sure is that the Georgians and the Russians both are bombing the shit out of civilian areas (Russia leveled the capitol's hospital two days ago) in the sake of cooking some soldiers with the collateral.

If they can bomb their own buildings for the sake of starting a war with Chechnya, they can kill a few villagers and blame it on the Georgians.

Edit: The Georgians have regrouped outside the borders of South Ossetia after Russia ramped up it's bombing runs. Ukraine stated today that it may bar Russian naval ships from returning to port in Crimea because of their actions in Georgia.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (mastachefbkw)

Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:20:51 GMT

G.I. JOSEPH!!! GET 'EM!!!

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (emofag)

Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:08:44 GMT

Um, it seems to be Russia are the good guys here. Seriously.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Nitro)

Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:56:25 GMT

Rampage99

On the day the Olympics start? Really? Wtf...

It's the perfect cover. Everybody is so caught up with the Olympics that this will get far less attention than it otherwise would have done.

That said, the Georgians have been shelling and sniping at civilians for months. I don't give a shit whether the territory is in dispute, you don't target civilians. If the reports of ethnic cleansing are true then the Georgians deserve everything they get.

It's been escalating for months now but Georgia moved yesterday to retake the province and Russia has moved in to stop them.

Russia has called an emergency UN Securuity Council meeting to try and figure something out, but the best that can be hoped for is for the Georgians to back down and for Russia moves some troops into South Ossetia. Russia has supposedly already taken out Georgia's airbases and none of the neighbouring regions are going to lend any assistance.

Re:Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict (Rampage99)

Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:56:20 GMT

On the day the Olympics start? Really? Wtf...